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ng ng make the planet great agaon

done

hehe MrO the only good news is that some U.S. industries and people are doing good things for the planet. More people work in Solar energy than in Coal. Our media rarely reports that. Plus with any luck President Twitler will be gone by the end of the year.

And for my "friends" here that still believe renewables will never meet our energy demands... Italy has installed enough solar so that peak demand on their grid has switched from the middle of the day to the middle of the night. Think about that for a while.

Yes, but did they close any generating plants recently?

No that didn't have to but they are not running at full capacity any more.

during the middle of the day

So the power companies are losing money?

No, they are just making less.

They are only getting paid for what they generate. Italy may do it differently but I think you have put your finger on who is resisting the move to renewables.

And rate payers are paying less.

because rate payers are also power generators.

Tuco, the problem with renewable energy sources is not that they are insufficient, its that they are not available when you need them. Until storage technology advances renewable energy will be impractical.

drWho. Talk to Elon Musk.

Ha ha!

I have a 10KW rooftop system I am leasing. My energy bill is 1/3 of what it used to be. All year long. If I invested in storage it would be $0

Great. Maybe you can get a government subsidy for the batteries.

The only "problem" with renewable energy is the vested interest in extraction industries that keep the traditional power companies in business. We will always have the traditional power sources but they will be diminished over time. Look around the world. We are being held back by vested interest.

Like the government subsidies for the extraction industries and Nuclear power?

Depreciation allowance on taxes is not a subsidy.

It is a new world drwho. If you don't want to see that then I understand.

http://priceofoil.org/fossil-fuel-subsidies/

I am all for renewable energy, if it is economical. RIght now it is not.

Sure it is. It is very economical for me and if it wasn't for everyone else except the extraction industries then why would the extraction industries lobby to kill net metering in Arizona and other states? Of course it is economical. If it wasn't it wouldn't be exploding like it is all over the world. Don't you believe in the free market and innovation?

If you are talking about it being cheaper to use natural gas then that is a by-product of renewable energy. More renewable on line means less demand for oil and natural gas thereby driving down the price for oil and natural gas. Win win for consumers, not so good for oil and gas.

I do believe in the free market. It is not a free market if the power company is required to buy energy from you however. That's a forced sale.

why? They are being forced to buy energy from the extraction industries. I am just a different source of generation.

Fine, buy the batteries and cut the power company out altogether.

And they are selling my energy to non solar customers at a higher price then they buy from me.

Of course and you are probably selling it to them for more than it cost you to generate it.

just as they are selling the energy produced by fossil fuels for a higher price than it cost them for the fuel. Profit still exists.

B.T.W. there is no coercion when power companies buy fuel from a supplier. At least not like when they buy it from you.

No coercion? hmmm. I guess they could decide to buy their coal, natural gas or uranium from the cheapest supplier. But I think that is usually a done back room deal somewhere.

If in fact we all installed our own solar/wind generators and if in fact we could sell the electricity to the power company cheaper than they could generate it from fossil fuel, do you think for a moment they would keep buying the fossil fuel?

Yes I do, because in many cases the fossil fuel companies also run the power generation plants.

Irrelevant. If they could make more money they would.

And that is the crux of the problem. Who is making the money?

I am saving money, I am providing cheap almost no cost energy to the power company which they are then selling at the same rate as the power they are producing from higher cost suppliers thereby making more money off of my power. They only people who do not like that are my competitors. The fossil fuel companies.

But the fossil fuel companies do not have any say over where your power company gets its power, unless they own the power company. Do they?

plus they are not "buying" the excess energy from me. They do not send me a check. They just reduce my bill from energy I pull from them. Plus they make out there too. If I use what is equal to $20 of what NYSEG would charge a non solar customer I am only being credited about $12

That is a question you would have to ask the people in charge of buying that power. I would say they have huge lobbying power.

Plus if the fossil fuel companies can lobby for the end of net-metering in Arizona then isn't that exactly what they are doing?

Not at all. It is the power companies, not the fossil fuel industry doing the lobbying. If in fact the energy you generate is cheaper than generating it themselves they will buy it because they can make more money.

Imagine if a state like Arizona ramped up rooftop and other solar installations. They could be providing excess energy all over the southwest and even to Mexico.

Only when the sun shines and the wind blows.

ARIZONA What is on their flag??? Besides you have that backward drwho. If the power companies could save the money then the fossil fuel companies would lose that money the fossil fuel companies are lobbying congress to keep from losing money, not to make more.

Yes, the fossil fuel companies are trying to use government coercion to force the power companies to buy from them just like you use government coercion to force them to buy from you.

Understood. Who do we want the power companies to buy their fuel from. The extraction industries destroying the environment or the Sun and Wind who aren't charging us a penny? We are moving as a world closer and inexorably to the latter.

I want them free to decide for themselves.

If you want to influence their decision on the matter buy stock in the company and go vote at the shareholder meetings.

But we are not free to decide. We are being lobbied unequally on the extraction side to preserve their monopoly and profits.

Lobbying is not coercion, it is persuasion, unless you are lobbying the government for laws that favor your position.

The Oil and Gas lobby own the Republican Party.

Ha ha.

that is fact, that is why the Republican party denies climate change.

Even though there are Republicans who accept the science they will never admit it publicly in fear of being primaried.

No, the Republican party denies climate change because it is a hoax.

There you go. And that is the problem.

Tuco, you're just too gullible.

Okay, I am gullible. I believe in science, you believe it is a hoax. Gotcha

A vast left wing conspiracy.

So science is whatever you want it to be.

No science is science. Provable. Stands up to scrutiny. Peer reviewed.

There is a case of follow the money. Look at where most of the climate change advocates get their money.

Oh god. Here we go. George Soros, etc. Tell me where the extraction industries get their money. Tell me how much money the API spends on television commercials as opposed to how much money the climate change advocates have as their total budget. sheesh.

No, not George Soros, the government! Most of those scientist are dependent on government grants.

circular logic. Go read the link I posted below. priceofoil.org.

Climate change fairy tales create an excuse for more government regulation and control.

I used to be involved in a USDA project here at work. People who do government funded research are not biased. They report the facts. And if you think otherwise than why aren't they reporting that climate change is a hoax when there are Republican administrations?

vast left wing conspiracy by the deep state?

We control the government you are being controlled by those who do not want government controlling their business. They want free rein to destroy the planet and abuse the native peoples whose land they destroy.

Because the same bureaucrats approve their grants in Republican and Democrat administrations.

That makes no sense.

The bureaucrats who approve the grants are controlled by the heads of the departments appointed by the administration.

So you are saying that we should have a whipsaw of scientific information based on alternating ideologies dependent on which side of the aisle controls congress.

We are presently under the erroneous belief that there is such a thing as climate change because the U.S. government is telling a bunch of scientists that is the conclusion they must come up with if they want funding.

Wow.

Because the poor hippies who believe in climate change have the government by the balls and are forcing them to make the scientist fudge the data and come up with a hoax that can never be proven wrong. hmmm. plausible?

Climate change is happening. It always does. However, the "problem" is that some of you Chicken Littles believe that is a bad thing and we are causing it. The only "proof" you have for that is climate modelling software which rarely gets anything right.

The only proof.... Have you been to Miami lately? Have you heard about the Pacific island nation that is disappearing? Have you seen pictures of the North and South pole ice caps? Have you seen the USDA planting map change over the last 45 years?

Have you ever had an aquarium? Do you know what happens when the environment can no longer sustain a certain level of CO2?

Have you seen the level of Lake Ontario lately?

Chicken Little my ass.

Time to divest from your energy stocks drwho.

The sky is falling!

not falling, filling up.

The only thing filling up is this chatter box.

"not a puppet, you're the puppet" covfefe.

im done. see ya in a call box.

Cheers.

Start

Done. ng, ng.

Done

start

ding

EZPZ. 12.

dng

Congrats to the new Irish PM elect. Ireland we salute your decision. Come on Australian members of parliament, start listening to your people. And to Margaret Court, you were an astounding example of tennis genius, but please keep your outdated unwelcome remarks to yourself. The world is thankfully moving on towards a decent, inclusive, caring humanity.

finally back up to date