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## CHAT LOG for Sunday, March 25, 2007

12:39 am
peternl

hi all
12:40 am
drwho

Hi peter, not bad for an expert. Difficulty score 44.
12:42 am
peternl

good to know
12:49 am
WHB

Done
1:41 am
hornbeck

finished with 3% battery left in the powerbook :-)
1:41 am
hornbeck

bedtime
1:57 am
NJL

done, it was a very easy expert ... no guesses to get ti done quickly
3:14 am
moedog

hi all!
3:37 am
Amiku

Hallo there
3:37 am
Amiku

I'm babbling at the same time >.>
4:10 am
h

go - gaack, 2 experts in a row? sigh...
4:17 am
lai

hi there!!
4:18 am
h

heyho... gl
4:18 am
lai

who want to chat with me hu???
4:18 am
augurus

Again? I felt like I did this yesterday.
4:20 am
h

no this ones different, the 4s are easier to spot...
4:22 am
augurus

Nonetheless, the pattern is very similar.
4:23 am
h

might be - id have to go look... slow going so far, but steady...
4:24 am
lai

how will i know if i put the right one?
4:28 am
lai

haaayyy...
4:30 am
h

the right three boxes are all lining up with a nice matching-set of interlocking pairs... im probably hitting the stop-point with 28 left...
4:30 am
augurus

Sudoku is a logic-based puzzle: try to deduce the answer.
4:30 am
h

lai - you never "really know" until the end - when it gives you a message-of-success...
4:33 am
h

grrr - going green, even tho i can "almost" keep all the pairs straight...
4:33 am
lai

ok..thanks.. :)
4:44 am
h

ok, i think i get the xywing thing at r7c6... hopefully im not bursting someones solving bubble by giving away too much?
4:45 am
augurus

Well by giving the axis away, yes you are being quite sarcastic when you stated that. Fortunately, not everyone understands what XY wing is? Is it, a question?
4:46 am
h

well - it doesnt look like it solves it completely yet anyways... sigh...
4:50 am
h

oooh - that swordfish thingie... im finally starting to see them - rather than just force something...
4:52 am
augurus

Excellente.
4:53 am
h

crud - i did something wrong... conflict... sigh...
5:02 am
lai

its too arduous..huh..
5:53 am
h

well, i tried all sorts of "deductions", then "guesses" that usually caused a "force" fairly quickly - but i just-now finished. i think it took me like 3 more forces after i made some mistake identifying the swordfish-thingie... good luck all - this one was tortuous on me... much worse than yesterdays...
6:43 am
peternl

one guess and its done
6:49 am
Andy

Same here...
6:49 am
Andy

What's strange is that I was testing to see if I understood XY-Wing and tried to see what would happen if I used the value that should be eliminated. That was my guess that solved the puzzle. Guess I don't understand XY-Wing fully yet :)
6:50 am
peternl

Yep, never figured out the XY-Wing stuff
6:53 am
smooth_pappa

good morning! go!
7:02 am
peternl

yesterday's is a pain
7:03 am
smooth_pappa

that one didn't bther me much. today's is sticky, though
7:05 am
smooth_pappa

whoo hoo! done!
7:05 am
sprite

yay pappa :)
7:07 am
smooth_pappa

goede ochtend vriend!
7:07 am
sprite

goedemiddag!
7:07 am
smooth_pappa

hoewel, ik denk is het geen ochtend voor u?
7:07 am
smooth_pappa

lol
7:08 am
sprite

niet meer, voor u wel?
7:09 am
smooth_pappa

het is zeven uur op dit ogenblik voor me. te vroeg om op een zondag wakker te zijn. Maar hier ben ik
7:10 am
sprite

hier is het 2 uur 's middags, al voelt het als een uur eerder. DST is net ingegaan. Ik wens u een goede zondag :)
7:11 am
Andy

You are making me want to run to the store for some stroopwaffles...
7:11 am
smooth_pappa

well thanks! Enough dutch for me for now... like I said it... I don't think my brain can handle much more yet. ;)
7:11 am
Andy

(a habit I picked up from a 2003 trip to Amsterdam :)
7:11 am
sprite

awwww stroopwafels... yummie!
It always surprises me that some people know Dutch :)
7:11 am
smooth_pappa

I had to get up this early for grocery shopping.....I'm about to leave. This is the only time there are not a bajillion people who have no common curtesy running around.
7:11 am
sprite

hey Andy! *hug* Long time no see!
7:11 am
smooth_pappa

morning andy
7:12 am
Andy

Morning :)
7:12 am
smooth_pappa

despite having been to holland, I haven't had stroopwaffles
7:12 am
sprite

oh yes pappa, I sympathise completely! Make a quick run and enjoy the rest of your sunday then :)
7:12 am
Andy

I need to go some grocery shopping as well. Guess I'm driving up to Providence to hit the whole foods... they carry the stroopwaffles
7:13 am
smooth_pappa

rhide island... one of the few states I have not yet been to!
7:13 am
Andy

You might have... you could sneeze and have missed it :)
7:13 am
sprite

that is almost criminal, pappa - you should have had fresh stroopwaffles!
7:13 am
smooth_pappa

first, is coffee time sprite... Must have it. then shopping
7:13 am
sprite

lol Andy
7:14 am
peternl

I dont suppose one of you dutch speakers wants to read a .dk blog posting and sumarise it for me?
7:14 am
sprite

true pappa. Never face the shops without coffee!
7:14 am
smooth_pappa

not I ... Duth is definitely not my strong suit
7:14 am
sprite

is it long, peter?
7:15 am
Andy

You could always use one of the online translators so you know what it DOESN'T say!
7:15 am
peternl

A few paragraphs. <http://mikkelwinther.dk/2007/03/jeg-har-vund
et-interarchy/> I wrote Interarchy and I'm just curious what it says...
7:15 am
peternl

The one I tried didnt handle dutch
7:15 am
smooth_pappa

HA! no kidding andy
7:15 am
sprite

I'll take a look for you
7:15 am
Andy

Isn't .dk Denmark?
7:16 am
sprite

lol, that is no dutch, that is denmark
7:16 am
Andy

OH! You're THAT Peter! I'm a long time Interarchy user :)
7:16 am
peternl

Could be, I can't read it ;-)
7:16 am
peternl

Ha, small world ;-)
7:16 am
sprite

7:17 am
peternl

ah well, not to worry.
7:17 am
Andy

True, true... don't tell Jim Matthews though... my name's actually in the original credits for Fetch. I used to go to and work at Dartmouth College.
7:17 am
smooth_pappa

too bad by brother isn't here... he spent a year in copenhagen, he'd be able to read it
7:17 am
Andy

If you're on a bit later, I can call my mother. She speaks/reads Danish.
7:18 am
peternl

It's not that important, I was just curious
7:18 am
abstract17fr

hi all
7:19 am
Andy

morning!
7:19 am
sprite

hi abstract
7:21 am
smooth_pappa

peter, I have some of it for you. it looks like he's done radio work. a dj for a "progressive pop music" show. and his blog talks about online communication, art, music, business, "and much more"
7:21 am
smooth_pappa

hi abstract
7:23 am
smooth_pappa

abstract.. nice photo album! I see pictures from valle d'aoste... they make some wonderful cheeses there!
7:27 am
abstract17fr

thanks ! yes good cheeses and a nice place to visiting
7:28 am
smooth_pappa

sadly, I have not been there yet. Only tried a couple of products from there.
7:32 am
abstract17fr

I understand :) is a good palce for a holiday .. nice place, nice people, good food and nice prices :)
7:32 am
sprite

will remember that! Good place for spending the holidays. Nice pic, abstract!
7:33 am
abstract17fr

hope that I'll return one day :)
7:33 am
abstract17fr

thanks sprite !
7:33 am
smooth_pappa

are you in bucharest, abstract?
7:33 am
abstract17fr

no
7:34 am
abstract17fr

Netherlands - Romania - 0-0 :)
7:34 am
sprite

LOL
7:35 am
smooth_pappa

lol
7:35 am
abstract17fr

:)
7:35 am
abstract17fr

a nice match ;-)
7:36 am
lk911

HUmmmm...this puzzle was about 5x easier than yesterday; 34min. it gives you the opportunity to solve the right third and you can figure out the other 2/3...
7:36 am
sprite

I will never understand the ratings of these puzzles anyway.
7:42 am
smooth_pappa

ok.. have a great day everyone... time to go shopping.... *scowls*
7:42 am
sprite

I wish you a quiet store and nice people, pappa :) Have a great sunday.
7:43 am
abstract17fr

bye smooth_pappa! good day tooo !
7:43 am
Andy

later :)
7:43 am
Andy

Now to finish the expert from 3.28.06
7:52 am
babsmgl

7:55 am
Andy

Not I
7:56 am
Andy

OK, this archival puzzle is giving me a headache. I'm going to go make pancakes for my family. bbl :)
7:56 am
abstract17fr

:)
7:58 am
abstract17fr

I have pbs with this site sometimes .. it block my browser ( I use Safari)
8:09 am
orsetta87

hi all
8:09 am
orsetta87

come to visit my msn space
8:09 am
orsetta87

http://orsetta87na.spaces.live.com/
8:09 am
orsetta87

write me a comment if you want
8:10 am
orsetta87

I'm waiting for you
8:10 am
orsetta87

:-)
8:10 am
NonoNanette

we're not waiting for you!
8:10 am
orsetta87

why?
8:10 am
abstract17fr

:)
8:12 am
sprite

dumb spammer back again?
8:12 am
abstract17fr

good day everyone ! bye bye
8:12 am
sprite

bye abstract!
8:13 am
orsetta87

I'm not a spammer
8:13 am
sprite

you are
8:21 am
chebuctonian

go
8:35 am
orsetta87

well sprite
8:36 am
orsetta87

if you'll go to my space
8:36 am
orsetta87

you'll understand that I'm not a spammer
8:36 am
orsetta87

Infact I don't know who is a spammer
8:36 am
orsetta87

I have never met one
8:36 am
chebuctonian

orsetta87, sounds like you really want some attention to your 'myspace' :)
8:37 am
orsetta87

yes because I like that people of other countries
8:37 am
orsetta87

go to visit it and write me a comment in an other language
8:38 am
chebuctonian

orsetta87, this isn't an appropriate forum
8:38 am
orsetta87

for what?
8:39 am
chebuctonian

8:39 am
dan2bit

8:39 am
orsetta87

why?
8:39 am
orsetta87

this is a chat
8:39 am
orsetta87

what's the meaning of spamming?
8:39 am
chebuctonian

it's a chat for people completing a puzzle. your web page is not about the puzzle.
8:39 am
dan2bit

just because you *can* doesn't mean you *should*
8:40 am
orsetta87

ok I thought that here I could meet new people
8:41 am
dan2bit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_spam
8:41 am
chebuctonian

done
8:57 am
UnikeTheHunter

Go.
9:02 am
Andy

oh, I miss all the fun :)
9:03 am
eyeman

ok, go
9:07 am
UnikeTheHunter

Rats. I missed a solo. I have to get better at finding those.
9:07 am
Andy

solo?
9:07 am
UnikeTheHunter

That's where, when you put in greens, a cell has only one green.
9:08 am
Andy

ahhh...
9:09 am
UnikeTheHunter

Eyeman, what does an art manager for classical pianists do?
9:18 am
yul

hiello everybody
9:18 am
UnikeTheHunter

Hi, Yul.
9:19 am
yul

two experts in the row... i am scared
9:19 am
Andy

Can't have you having a relaxing weekend now, could we? :)
9:21 am
yul

no. vigorous exercise is needed before summer
9:22 am
eyeman

Hi unike - just saw your message. Answer: get work for the pianists.
9:23 am
UnikeTheHunter

How did you get started doing that?
9:23 am
eyeman

finished the puzzle. one green.
9:24 am
UnikeTheHunter

wow. That's great.
9:24 am
eyeman

life experiences, contacts and contracts!
9:25 am
UnikeTheHunter

Are you a pianist yourself?
9:25 am
eyeman

slow going usually. Me a pianist? I used to play pretty badly, but I love the piano repertoire.
9:26 am
UnikeTheHunter

It certainly is bigger that, say, the oboe repertoire.
9:26 am
UnikeTheHunter

...than...
9:27 am
eyeman

Or contrabassoon! :)
9:27 am
eyeman

but most everybody likes the piano, so that helps
9:28 am
eyeman

gotta go for awile - nice chatting. Back later.
9:28 am
UnikeTheHunter

I'm a pianist. I love the cords. But now that I've taken up fiddle and singing, I find I miss the expressiveness of sustained notes on piano.
9:28 am
eyeman

gotta go for awile - nice chatting. Back later.
9:38 am
spellacked

two experts in a row, huh? Go
9:39 am
UnikeTheHunter

Got it. One guess.
9:51 am
dorens

me too. Either these were two very easy experts, or I'm getting better at this game. OR a combination of the two.
9:54 am
spellacked

Got lucky -- first chain ended in three steps, done
9:55 am
spellacked

I'm not sure what criteria Dr. God uses to rank easy/med/hard/expert, except that Expert appears to be any puzzle where you have to use forcing chains. It can be very easy and quick to get to that point, but chains do frustrate a lot of people. Having greenies and reddies helps.
10:01 am
yul

that if you can have a second colour ;)
10:05 am
yul

finished. with one simple forcing chain
10:07 am
yul

it pays to find a right place to start the forcing chain. top right square was excellent for that purpose
10:08 am
OrangeSlice

Naughty naughty.
10:10 am
Andy

top right is where I did a guess. actually, wasn't a guess. I was testing if I understood XY correctly and said "What would happen if I filled this in with the value I should eliminate?" I solved the puzzle. And don't quite get XY yet :)
10:11 am
OrangeSlice

Forcing chains is pointless. Why do you even try to solve it if you are only going to guess your way to the solution. That is not solving.
10:12 am
yul

I almost newer mark greens so it's a bit difficult for me too look for wings
10:12 am
OrangeSlice

I understand that a lot of people can't be bothered to learn advanced solving techniques because they're more casual about it or whatever, but I just don't understand people who say they "solved" a sudoku by forcing chains or guessing.
10:13 am
OrangeSlice

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, it's just something that bothers me.
10:14 am
Andy

A puzzle exists in one of two states: solved and unsolved. When the correct numbers are filled in, the puzzle is solved and someone has solved it. Method matters not. If it bugs you that people guess, then don't guess yourself. I don't really see the difference.
10:15 am
Andy

I don't get bothered when people say they guessed. I never did it before today and I don't feel any worse for having done it. I get more bothered when people look down on others who use greens or guesses or other "lower" methods. This is supposed to be fun. We don't need an oversight committe.
10:15 am
Andy

e
10:16 am
yul

I could use X wing but I prefer not to mark greens and solve sudoku completely without them. I don't think that using forcing chains = guessing, especially if there is no markings
10:17 am
Andy

I've gotten good at finding X wings without greens. I still don't really get XY so can't claim that one yet... I find I need a few greens on mediums and almost always on hards. One day, I may not. We'll see... depends on how obsessed I become...
10:18 am
arleneehm

someday i'll solve it without greens but I'm not there yet.....
10:19 am
OrangeSlice

The point is all sudoku can be solved without guessing or forcing the puzzle. Have we lost interest in the fun of actually finding which number goes where and obsess over simply completing the grid now?
10:20 am
Andy

I haven't. Maybe others have. But that's not my business. I guess all I am saying is live and let live. Or solve and let solve :)
10:21 am
OrangeSlice

I can understand people who don't use greens. I tend to shy away from them myself on lower-level puzzles, but on most experts the solving technique requires them, or a very good memory.
10:22 am
yul

I used to use greens on all puzzles but then I tried not to use them on mediums and found it much easier than one would expected... So I started using greens much less and very quickly stopped using them nearly ever
10:22 am
Andy

I still need them on medium and up. Well. not all mediums.
10:24 am
yul

bye.have a nice day everybody
10:24 am
Andy

later!
10:32 am
dorens

how about "live and let live" who wants to use greens, let them. who wants to guess, let them. It matters not what others do, really, and I can't see enforcing my own methods, ethics or anything else on anyone here. this is a game!
10:32 am
Andy

For fun, trying no greens on an easy from last year... GO
10:34 am
Andy

I already made the live and let live point just a bit down :)
10:34 am
OrangeSlice

How about letting other people express a point of view without trying to turn it into an attack.
10:34 am
OrangeSlice

Seriously.
10:35 am
Andy

Your point of view was rather confrontational in its original expression. Not that it felt like an attack on the person talking about chains but it was rather blunt.
10:37 am
dorens

point of view concerning feelings of superiority over others here, and lack of tolerance for them, can of course be expressed, but isn't very nice.. or necessary.
10:38 am
OrangeSlice

I'm sorry if you got that out of what I was saying, but I must say I think you have an inferiority complex if you did.
10:39 am
OrangeSlice

Nowhere did I in the least come close to even inferring that.
10:41 am
dorens

OrangeSlice
ProfileUnited States

Forcing chains is pointless. Why do you even try to solve it if you are only going to guess your way to the solution. That is not solving.
10:41 am
dorens

10:12 am
OrangeSlice
ProfileUnited States

I understand that a lot of people can't be bothered to learn advanced solving techniques because they're more casual about it or whatever, but I just don't understand people who say they "solved" a sudoku by forcing chains or guessing.
10:42 am
OrangeSlice

I fail to see where that expresses that I am 'better'
10:44 am
OrangeSlice

And believe me, if you actually knew me, you would know that I think quite the opposite of myself.
10:44 am
OrangeSlice

But I'm done talking.
10:44 am
OrangeSlice

Goodbye.
10:46 am
Andy

I was thinking of pointing out that it is "imply" not "infer" (below) but that reminded me of a funny t-shirt I saw recently: "I'm not pompous, I'm pedantic. There's a difference. Let me explain..." and then I started giggling. I'm a simple creature.
11:11 am
hornbeck

morning everyone
11:12 am
Krys10

hiya
11:13 am
irv

all greens entered
11:17 am
Krys10

i got stuck sort of suddenly
11:22 am
dorens

just checked back in. andy, you're a funny guy.
11:23 am
Krys10

I like Andy's T-shirt quote too
11:23 am
Krys10

dorens, I read back a little in the log - sounds like a heated conversation!
11:25 am
dorens

it shouldn't have sounded as unpleasant as it was. i just have read more than once that sort of implication that others are lesser if they use greens, or guesses, and I think it's admirable that some of us are so much better at this, but I don't like seeing people feel put down if they're not as clever or quick, or whatever. If no putdown was implied, inferred or meant, so be it.
11:26 am
dorens

anyway, i'm going back to babble... enough of sudoku for the day.
11:44 am
night_walker_52

I think I found a y-wing
11:45 am
night_walker_52

nope
12:04 pm
ypsigirl

5 points! Expert done! Yeah Baby!
12:11 pm
skizzybiz

oh nice, i finally figured out how to use xy-wing
12:11 pm
skizzybiz

that clears out a big chunk of the puzzle quite quickly
12:12 pm
skizzybiz

and done!
12:21 pm
hurshy

another expert! two in a row! wow, maybe i'll get to practice my xy chain thing that i learned yesterday
12:25 pm

How does it work? I'm not at that level yet.
12:27 pm
skizzybiz

i don't think you need to be at a particular "level" to understand it. this page has a couple good examples of how to use it: http://www.brainbashers.com/sudokuxywing.asp
12:29 pm

Yes, in a sense, you do. I have tried to figure out different techniques for solving, but still use basic elimination. I'll try your site--thanks.
12:29 pm

Basic elimination and a lucky guess. Done.
12:29 pm
hurshy

i couldn't get it from reading websites, but luckily there was an example in yesterday's puzzle and orange slice was here and walked me through it
12:31 pm

Thanks. I looked at the site and the xz makes sense. I'll have to try it in another puzzle. Now it's gorgeous outside and I'm off. Luck all!
12:50 pm
brianarn

This is the first time I've really stopped by on weekends - are they usually harder than weekdays, or is it just my luck to get two experts this weekend? :D
12:54 pm
h

just dumb-luck...
1:03 pm
hurshy

or expert luck, as it were
1:27 pm
hurshy

there probably is an xy chain here... i wish OS were here to tell me where...
1:28 pm
Andy

I didn't find any XYs. One I thought was an XY wasn't. I don' think today's has any. Though, I'm hardly the authority :)
1:29 pm
OrangeSlice

There is.
1:30 pm
hurshy

maybe 1,4, 3,6, and 9,6?
1:30 pm
hurshy

yay you're here?
1:30 pm
hurshy

i mean !
1:30 pm
OrangeSlice

But since it seems my method of logical elimination isn't valuable, I won't bother anyone with it.
1:30 pm
hurshy

is that right?
1:30 pm
Andy

They need to be in the AB, BC, AC pattern.
1:30 pm
hurshy

huh, what?
1:30 pm
hurshy

i mean that in response to OS's comment.
1:30 pm
Andy

No one ever said the methods are not valuable.
1:31 pm
OrangeSlice

root cell is in the lower-right box, hursh.
1:31 pm
hurshy

ooh, wait, then maybe it is 9,1, 9,9, and 7, 6?
1:31 pm
OrangeSlice

Wings and in the upper-right and lower-right boxes, and it removes a candidate from the upper-right which solves the XY chain.
1:32 pm
Andy

It's the upper right that I thought was the one that could face elimination via the XY but I had it wrong. Turns out I triggered the chain all on my own :)
1:33 pm
hurshy

i think i've got it!!!
1:33 pm
hurshy

mine's all in the right side of the puzzle...
1:34 pm
hurshy

no, mine is not right
1:34 pm
hurshy

i don't think.
1:35 pm
OrangeSlice

They can't all be aligned.
1:35 pm
hurshy

so i need to use 7,8 instead of 6, 7
1:35 pm
hurshy

no... oh bother, i thought i had it.
1:36 pm
brianarn

I think I found that xywing after hearing the tip - was already kind of looking in that area, just hadn't gotten down there - thanks OrangeSlice :D Let's see if this opens it up more
1:36 pm
OrangeSlice

You'll see it eventually
1:36 pm
hurshy

tell me the correct cells, i think i need another run-through before i can get it on my own
1:37 pm
OrangeSlice

R1C9 R8C9 and R7C8
1:37 pm
OrangeSlice

I think that's where it was
1:39 pm
hurshy

1:39 pm
hurshy

you must mean 9,9
1:39 pm
hurshy

so i am looking at the right cells then i think.
1:39 pm
OrangeSlice

I've done about 6 other puzzles since I solved today's, so I could be wrong.
1:39 pm
hurshy

how do you know which one is the "middle" again?
1:40 pm
hurshy

the one that can see both others... right.
1:40 pm
OrangeSlice

The middle can see both wing cells. The wings can only individually see the middle.
1:42 pm
hurshy

if the middle is an 8, then that one is a 3. if it is a 7, then...no, that doesn't work
1:42 pm
brianarn

I just finished it and I think the xy wing I saw was
1:43 pm
brianarn

Middle at R9C9, wings at R7C8 and R1C9 or something around there
1:43 pm
brianarn

and that opened it right on up
1:43 pm
hurshy

yes that is what i am looking at
1:43 pm
hurshy

maybe i have not eliminated some possibles i should have in other cells
1:44 pm
OrangeSlice

You need exactly two candidates in each cell.
1:44 pm
brianarn

The 3 was the Z if I recall, and so basically the right two columns lost any potentials 3s outside of those cells
1:44 pm
hurshy

oh yes
1:44 pm
brianarn

I think when I did that, R3C8 was candidates of 3,8 and it eliminated the 3, leaving only the 8, and that's where it all chained
1:44 pm
hurshy

if that is a 7, then that one is a 3
1:45 pm
brianarn

The XY technique is really neat.
1:45 pm
hurshy

wait, ack, i keep losing it
1:45 pm
hurshy

ok i think i got it
1:46 pm
brianarn

I am seriously tempted to sign up for pro so I can go back and poke at other puzzles now. Addiction! Arg! :D
1:46 pm
Andy

I succumbed earlier this week :)
1:47 pm
hurshy

i wish i hadn't done them all so i could practice this on old experts
1:47 pm
hurshy

maybe on paper...
1:47 pm
hurshy

ok, i did get it.
1:48 pm
hurshy

it is like magic eye... i almost get it and then i lose it... lol... but i did get it eventually.
1:48 pm
hurshy

1:48 pm
OrangeSlice

Was kind of funny actually, when I first learned this technique I went back to a few experts I had been stuck on previously and managed to solve them all with it.
1:49 pm
OrangeSlice

It seems to show up quite often in them
1:49 pm
hurshy

yes it seems like the one technique i was missing
1:49 pm
hurshy

i wonder if my mom knows about it
1:50 pm
OrangeSlice

Now you get to learn the xyz-wing and the wxyz-wing :)
1:50 pm
hurshy

oh rats, i thought i was set
1:51 pm
OrangeSlice

just kidding.
1:51 pm
OrangeSlice

I've never had a puzzle where those were required.
1:51 pm
brianarn

How many checkpoints do you get to set per puzzle? Just one?
1:51 pm
hurshy

but you never know...
1:51 pm
hurshy

is it the same idea but with more numbers?
1:51 pm
hurshy

as many as you want brian
1:51 pm
OrangeSlice

In fact I've never seen a wxyz-wing in the wild. I have used an xyz on occasion though.
1:52 pm
OrangeSlice

Yeah it's pretty much the same idea.
1:52 pm
hurshy

but with... 3 numbers in 4 cells?
1:52 pm
OrangeSlice

xyz-wing has one three-candidate cell as the root and 2 two-candidate cells as the wings, and can eliminate anything all 3 can see.
1:52 pm
OrangeSlice

basically a naked triple, but not all lined up.
1:53 pm
hurshy

so, might have been able to use that instead of the xy today...
1:53 pm
OrangeSlice

wxyz same idea with 4 candidates as the root
1:53 pm
hurshy

for cells 3,7, 7,7, and 7,8... i think...
1:54 pm
hurshy

but there are always 2 in the wing cells? or are there more in a wxyz
1:54 pm
OrangeSlice

still 2.
1:54 pm
hurshy

ok
1:54 pm
hurshy

hmm, will try to keep that in mind
1:54 pm
OrangeSlice

You would have something like 1234, 24, 14, 34.
1:55 pm
OrangeSlice

The common number being 4, and a such for any value of the 4-candidate cell one of the wings would end up as 4, so anything they can all see can have 4 removed.
1:55 pm
hurshy

so there are four involved in a wxyz
1:55 pm
hurshy

but 3 in an xy or xyz?
1:55 pm
OrangeSlice

same idea as xyz. basically a naked quad that's not lined up.
1:56 pm
hurshy

i mean 4 cells
1:56 pm
hurshy

so it is the number of cells for the number of values..
1:56 pm
hurshy

like the naked things
1:56 pm
OrangeSlice

right
1:56 pm
hurshy

well, the spark of it is in my head, someday it will be a full-fledged flame
1:57 pm
hurshy

here is marty
1:57 pm
OrangeSlice

One of the things I usually do on experts is look for relationships between empty cells like this, because you can almost always find something.
1:58 pm
hurshy

yes, i would imagine so
1:59 pm
brianarn

I think they should give a stipend of my referral fee to people like OrangeSlice, because that's why I'm going to sign up for pro now. :D
1:59 pm
Andy

lol
1:59 pm
brianarn

erm, a stipend or a referral fee cut from my payment rather
1:59 pm
hurshy

i should clip their claws before marty accidentally gets me in the jugular
2:00 pm
OrangeSlice

I'm always willing to help out if I've got the solution.
2:00 pm
hurshy

me too!
2:01 pm
hurshy

i go play set now
2:01 pm
OrangeSlice

Of course, there's a couple that even I'm stuck on, so don't think I know everything :)
3:02 pm
gesund

2 experts in a row?
3:12 pm
helenkeller

go
3:26 pm
helenkeller

done
3:26 pm
helenkeller

pretty easy for expert
3:26 pm
derfasaurus

yeah, 2 fairly easy experts in a row
3:26 pm
derfasaurus

boom, done
3:27 pm
helenkeller

7:09 pm
Zugzug7

Two Experts in a row? Uh-oh. Don't like that.
7:22 pm
Zugzug7

Done. No problems at all. Only one guess though.
7:25 pm
gman

has anyone solved all cells but 25, like me. What next,, besides a guess/force??
7:28 pm
sommeil

I'm at 25 right now too -- I think the key might be an xy-wing, which orangeslice mentioned earlier in the chat, but I've got to look up exactly what that is
8:25 pm
LeslieAnn

i would think it has something to do with all the 1/6 and 1/6/9 cells, but i can't do these yet unless i'm led through it :)
8:53 pm
LeslieAnn

i read back through the log and that's not it, but i'm still stuck
9:02 pm
LeslieAnn

ok, if anyone is still here who cares, you need to look at these three cells: R1C9, R7C8, and R9C9. Specifically, if a three is in one of those cells, it can't be in a different cell. (not one i mentioned)
9:31 pm
sommeil

Thanks LeslieAnn! I had to step away from the puzzle because I couldn't find the key and was getting frustrated. I've finally got it now.
9:32 pm
OrangeSlice

xy-wings are harder to find than they are to implement, usually.
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