start

ding

Wonder if there will be civil war in the republican party.I'm sure they all carry guns so it could get very ugly.I'm sure Trumpypumpy will make sure he has the biggest1

It will all be OK though cos they'll make a movie blockbuster out of it.

Done

Watched Deadpool last week, awful film, blowing someones brains out and then having a laugh about it. Off to see Lady in a Van, should be vastly more entertaining and thought provoking and no doubt cost about 1 per cent of the other one. Have to say the British make the best movies, TV and music followed by the Aussies then the Americans.

Done, no green.

go

ding

thx dr who: it works like a charm

not that it is needed in this one :-) sooo easy

done

done

This is not political but historical opinion. It seems to me that since around 1978 when Dallas premiered and 1984 when Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous started there has been a concerted effort to elevate greed to a virtue at the expense of the commons and the collective. The attack on unions and removal of tariffs to drive down wages so the few would benefit at the expense of the many has been glorified in the media as American Values and what everyone should aspire to.

drwho - ah, the universe of technical definitions - that explains it, an alternate universe for me, not one I live in (as much as possible) :)

go

done

Easy enough. 16.

I think greed in general is beneficial to society as long as it's not accompanied by selfishness. In general, rich people are by far the most generous people you will ever meet. The selfish avarice in politics is all on the side of those who demand Bigger Government.

busy for an easy

start

Done. ng, ng.

Unike, I would modify one word of your comment, for greed I would substitute self interest.

HK: yes, the universe of technical is not a very friendly place, but it is very well ordered.

*** universe of technical DEFINITIONS ***

Phil - civil war in the Republican party is possible. Guns, not necessarily. There is plenty of history of fist fights in Congress and representatives being beaten to an inch of their lives with a cane in US history as well as the history of other countries.

And the history of violence in Congress and state legislatures is not a recent phenomenon. It goes back more than 200 years.

I'm sure it goes back further than that, but I'm just referring to what I know of US history.

Just to second UTH's comment. Enlightened self interest is what makes free markets work. That's exactly what Adam Smith argued in The Wealth of Nations.

It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.
-- Adam Smith in The Wealth of Nations

But remember doctor that we live in a world completely foreign to Adam Smith ... He did not have corporations to worry about that had sufficient size to control a market ... he had only private butchers not large meat packers ... ... He did not have banks and bankers to worry about ... Barclays is still 20 years away the time of Wealth of Nations ... and the rest of the "banks" are run by "jews" such as the Rothschilds and are despised by all and sundry not because of their financial activity but because they're run by Jews ... he did not have computers and computer trading where the market's only reason for activity was to generate fees ... markets were for the purpose of being financial intermediaries ... and he was distressed that unions and employment would always be controlled by those who controlled military forces and could physically force people to work for them at low wages (he considered this control exerted by employers to be bad) ..;.

But remember doctor that we live in a world completely foreign to Adam Smith ... He did not have corporations to worry about that had sufficient size to control a market ... he had only private butchers not large meat packers ... ... He did not have banks and bankers to worry about ... Barclays is still 20 years away the time of Wealth of Nations ... and the rest of the "banks" are run by "jews" such as the Rothschilds and are despised by all and sundry not because of their financial activity but because they're run by Jews ... he did not have computers and computer trading where the market's only reason for activity was to generate fees ... markets were for the purpose of being financial intermediaries ... and he was distressed that unions and employment would always be controlled by those who controlled military forces and could physically force people to work for them at low wages (he considered this control exerted by employers to be bad) ..;.

Smith said many wise things but even he stated that the assumptions he made had to be met by the society of his market system was to work ... ... Are his assumptions being met today? ... I'm not nearly as certain as you are.

Big corporations cannot control a free market. Truly free markets are incapable of sustaining monopolies, unless the monopoly is beneficial.

Microsoft is an example of a beneficial monopoly. It really isn't a monopoly, but it is the dominant player in PC operating systems. The cost of Windows has stayed nearly the same or declined in terms of constant dollars over the years. If Microsoft were to try to take advantage of its virtual monopoly by raising the price of Windows they would eventually drive people to Linux or some other alternative that may not even exist yet.

doseffing, you're right about the markets, computerised trading is already under the spotlight and I think the greatly increased volatility on a daily basis will eventually lead to more controls. Far too many people are making ridiculous amounts of money essentially gambling with other peoples money, almost without impunity. Those that get caught rarely face public shame and prosecution as its not in the institutions interest to do so. One when its brought to the medias attention will they admit to it.

We have a similar problem in Aus at the moment with pay wave credit cards. After years of success with pin and chip technology, the banks sought fit to introduce the system of waving a card across a terminal with no form of checking, not even a check on a signature. Guess what, our crime rates have soared with huge increases in robbery and fraud. The banks still see it as a low loss percentage wise but have zero concern for the damage caused to the general public with the increase in violence against the person. Even though our Police Commissioner has highlighted the problem the banks are adamant they won't change. Disgraceful example of big business not caring about the public, their customers!

UTH - I have to disagree that the wealthy are the most generous. I have exactly the opposite view. I have worked for extremely wealthy individuals who were appallingly stingy. Currently I'm able to interact much more frequently with folks who are quite poor - but they'd take their shirts off their backs to help you.

doseffing, welcome to the discussion! Excellent points.

drwho, still waiting on whether you think we can learn anything from any other country, on the variety of subjects Phil & I mentioned (e.g., healthcare, guns, banking regulation, pesticides, education? Why do you think other countries are addressing challenges in a more successful way than we are in the US?

Diane: why is it so important to you whether we can or can't learn from other countries?

I am amused by the total distrust of big business exhibited by some here while the same people seem to have a total trust of government! Big businesses and governments are all run by the same type of people. In fact they are no different than any of the rest of us. We all must be obliged to behave ourselves. That's why the law is supposed to apply equally to all, whether rich or poor, government official or private citizen.

I believe the quote from Adam Smith applies here. In a free market enlightened self interest tends to keep the business person acting for the good of his customers. You can only treat your customers like crap for so long before you don't have any customers left.

What is it that obliges government officials to act in the public good? They certainly have as much self interest as anyone else. How do we keep it from harming the rest of us?

Adam Smith's answer was to keep government power strictly limited. I concur.

Diane, I learned something from Australia's gun confiscation in 1996. It appears that gun violence has been declining every year since. It also appears it had been declining at the very same rate from at least 1980. There is no evidence in the statistics to show that the new gun laws of 1996 had any effect on gun violence in Australia.

Tuco: hw

Tuco: here's a Russian joke. The difference between an American and a Russian can be seen in how they react to their neighbor getting a fancy new car.

The American tells his neighbor what a nice car he has, then gets a second job, saves his money until he can buy a bigger more expensive car.

The Russian sticks a potato in his neighbor's tailpipe and then his neighbor doesn't have a nicer car than his.

If you study the economic history of the U.S. you will see a pattern of economic booms and busts that happen when regulations are relaxed and the greedy are allowed to squander our wealth. We fall for it over and over. You don't need these highly regulated pensions. 401Ks will make everyone millionaires. Wall Street will make you all rich. It is so easy to forget the past. It is a pendulum that swings they steal and steal until the economy collapses into recession or depression (of which we have had many that is why 1929 was the great depression as opposed to all the others that preceded it) and then we reinstate some regulation and it all starts over after the fight to deregulate is won again.

Adam Smith wrote about how a nations wealth is created by what it actually creates. I piece of timber is worthless unless it is turned into an axe handle and sold or used in production. If you buy your axe handles from a foreign producer you lose your wealth to that foreign entity.

that is why the administration that ended tariffs started our nation on its slow economic decline. And the tax cuts/credits to manufacturers to move their business overseas is borderlline treason. In Germany you must have Labor represented on every corporate board. That is why German companies do not leave Germany.

Not because of "high taxes"

Tuco, you misread Smith or someone's cockeyed misinterpretation of Smith. Smith said that by trading with other nations all nations prospered. He opposed mercantilism.

You also misunderstand the boom and bust cycle. Milton Friedman study boom and bust cycles in US history and found that the booms were created by easy money policies and the busts were the market's way of correcting the easy money mistakes.

Finally, the great depression was actually caused by too much government meddling in the economy. There was a far worse market crash in 1920. Warren Harding did nothing, to the consternation of all and yet what followed is now known as the roaring 20s. The market crash of 1987 was the largest one day crash in history. Reagan did nothing, and my investments probably made me more money the next year than any time before or since.

The average time to recover from a market crash is about 18 months. With the exception of the 1929 crash and arguably the crash of 2008. Both of which were presided over by big government interventionists (Hoover, Roosevelt and Obama).