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## CHAT LOG for Sunday, October 1, 2006

12:04 am
tsianami

go
12:04 am
Grendel

lol
12:08 am
Grendel

done.
2:52 am
hoaf

Ah, yeah. No marks. First time on an expert puzzle. G'nite~
3:22 am
jwjjjcjh

done
5:08 am
Rosset101

hi
5:12 am
Rosset101

i'v finished but no fireworks
5:20 am
augurus

If you want fireworks, then you probably want to do Babble instead, heh.
6:20 am
Linda

easy 5 points if you put in the markers. perhaps I'm just getting better!
10:21 am
hurshy

i have done some calculations
10:21 am
hurshy

and i have discovered something noteworthy
10:22 am
Krys10

do tell, hurshy!
10:22 am
hurshy

d sub i = i/v
10:23 am
hurshy

ergo, i am the densest idiot ever to live
10:23 am
Krys10

yes, clearly (?!?) .. elaborate any time you wish :)
10:24 am
hurshy

it's so humiliating
10:24 am
hurshy

i can't believe i didn't think of something so very obvious until today
10:24 am
Krys10

i must have walked in at just the wrong moment - i have NO idea what you are talking about
10:25 am
hurshy

let me ask you this, krys, when you try a forcing chain and it results in an impossibility, what do you do next?
10:25 am
Krys10

it's a contradiction proof - your initial assumption must have been wrong
10:25 am
hurshy

and so what do you do about it?
10:26 am
hurshy

i mean you personally
10:26 am
hurshy

once you know that, what do you do with that information
10:26 am
Krys10

undo what you've done with that assumption in place, then redo with the initial assumption reversed
10:26 am
hurshy

what if the initial assumption wasn't in a pair?
10:27 am
Krys10

have you found a better way?
10:27 am
Krys10

then choose one of the other two options
10:27 am
Krys10

and consider that you may have to do it three times
10:27 am
hurshy

well yes
10:27 am
hurshy

but
10:27 am
Krys10

but if i don't run into a contradiction, i don't keep the info in place - only if i get a contradiction
10:27 am
hurshy

it means you can eliminate your starting point as an option
10:28 am
Krys10

and you can of course eliminate the option you intially assumed
10:28 am
Krys10

yeah
10:28 am
Krys10

we agree
10:28 am
hurshy

THAT is the obvious thing i never thought of.
10:28 am
Krys10

does this puzzle go into forcing chains? i hadn't really prepared myself for that
10:28 am
Krys10

i don't know if it ever came up for me - i only do forcing chains with two options - too chicken to get into more possibilities
10:29 am
Krys10

but now i will know to think of it in the future :)
10:29 am
hurshy

well, it is an expert, and the current hypothesis on the market is that things are labelled expert vs hard if you need a forcing chain
10:29 am
hurshy

in this one, all the forcing chains i tried with pairs didn't lead to impossibilities OR complete solutions.
10:29 am
Krys10

10:30 am
Krys10

you watched for unique rectangles? often I find they come up but the standard solving techniques go to forcing chains first
10:30 am
Krys10

sounds like an interesting one, in any case - will enjoy playing with it
10:30 am
Krys10

how have you been?
10:30 am
hurshy

i dunno, what's a unique rectangle again?
10:30 am
hurshy

oh i've been ok
10:31 am
Krys10

if three corners have a,b as their two options
10:31 am
Krys10

i mean three corners of a rectangle
10:31 am
hurshy

then...
10:31 am
Krys10

then the fourth corner cannot be a or b
10:31 am
hurshy

yes
10:31 am
Krys10

because that would lead to a non-unique solution
10:31 am
hurshy

i do know about that one
10:31 am
hurshy

it didn't help.
10:31 am
Krys10

there are variations
10:31 am
Krys10

k
10:31 am
Krys10

are you teachign this year?
10:31 am
hurshy

no, tutoring, but a new way
10:31 am
hurshy

it's fun
10:32 am
Krys10

how?
10:32 am
hurshy

i used to have 4 or 5 kids assigned to me who were in dire need of help, but often it was the school or their parents making them go, they had to come three times a week and if they didn't show i had to write them up as if they cut a class, etc
10:33 am
Krys10

ooh, that's a tough line between tutoring and mandatory study hall
10:33 am
hurshy

this year i am available to all students for drop-in help, so i'm only getting kids who really want to be here
10:33 am
hurshy

and i get to work with more kids, more levels of math, etc
10:33 am
Krys10

that sounds like a good change. i'm glad
10:33 am
hurshy

yeah, me too, i like it
10:34 am
Krys10

are you paid by the school or directly from the students/parents?
10:34 am
hurshy

the school.
10:34 am
hurshy

that was another things about tutoring, the parents paid for it, and i wanted kids to be able to come without that obstacle
10:35 am
Krys10

so you're running a math lab, using the model as it's called here
10:35 am
hurshy

so i convinced the headmaster i should just get a certain amount for the year for doing it
10:35 am
hurshy

yes
10:35 am
Krys10

nice
10:35 am
hurshy

of course, he hasn't yet figured out how much he can pay me and i haven't started getting paid...
10:35 am
hurshy

but we'll take it a step at a time, lol
10:36 am
Krys10

so you're keeping track of how many hours a week you're seeing students?
10:36 am
Krys10

i guess you could say 10 hours a week = .25 salary
10:36 am
hurshy

i am, just so that we can have an idea of how utilized it is, but i had told the headmaster i thought it was better if we just picked a number for the year, simpler than mucking about with hours and stuff.
10:37 am
Krys10

yeah, and it'll vary based on the exam schedule, and as people hear you're available ec
10:37 am
Krys10

etc
10:37 am
hurshy

but the thing is, if i have to be available anyway and i can't leave, that sort of should be pay-worthy too
10:37 am
hurshy

i'm available 20 hours a week
10:37 am
Krys10

four hours a day after school or something?
10:38 am
hurshy

i've only had kids for about 5 hours a week so far but i know it is going to increase, it's only been 3 weeks and we've never done this before.
10:38 am
hurshy

no, mostly during the school day and some in the evening, kids can drop in during free periods or evening study hall.
10:38 am
Krys10

sounds like a good system - lots less legwork for you in the end (writing reports, communication with parents, blah blah blah)
10:38 am
hurshy

yes, i hate paperwork.
10:39 am
hurshy

i suggested he pay me between \$7500 - \$10000 a year, do you think that is asking too much?
10:40 am
Krys10

assuming your average is 10 hours a week, and how long is the school year? 40 weeks?
10:40 am
Krys10

so \$8000 would be \$20/hour
10:40 am
Krys10

seems reasonable
10:41 am
Krys10

what is full-time salary for teaching?
10:41 am
hurshy

depends how long you've been here
10:41 am
Krys10

you could get more tutoring privately but you'd have to put all the work into getting clients and maintaining relationships with the parents
10:41 am
hurshy

i was making \$20/hour under the old tutoring system, so...
10:42 am
Krys10

so that seems like a good deal
10:42 am
hurshy

but of course, under the old system, the parents paid for it and i think the school made a profit
10:42 am
hurshy

whereas this way they just have to pay me.
10:42 am
Krys10

i am tutoring just a teensy bit, 2-4 hours/week
10:43 am
Krys10

i think it's a good system, especially since you're enjoying it more
10:43 am
hurshy

however, we really ought to move towards charging a higher sticker price for those who can afford it and just charging less to those to can't.
10:43 am
Krys10

i know there's a lots of variation geographically, but here the going rate is \$60-\$100/hr
10:44 am
hurshy

i think this drop-in thing is also sort of more valuable to the school, because before there were always more kids who needed math help than there were tutoring slots available. and also, it's good to be able to tell parents, we have free tutoring available. and the headmaster liked the idea that if a parent complained that their kid wasn't doing well in math, he could say, hey, we have free tutoring and he hasn't been going
10:45 am
Krys10

it makes the students more accountable, which is always better for learning, I think
10:45 am
Krys10

and it's good promo for the school
10:45 am
hurshy

yeah, i know tutors make more independently, but we are a poor little school, and i don't care that much about the money, i just want to make a little something and do something i like to do.
10:48 am
hurshy

that is the great thing about computer geeks too - they like what they do and they like to be helpful, so unlike lawyers and stuff they don't necessarily charge you an arm and a leg
10:48 am
Krys10

ok, I'm at the forcing chaing part of my game
10:48 am
Krys10

and they don't have seven years of law school loans to pay off
10:48 am
Krys10

:)
10:48 am
hurshy

that too :)
10:49 am
hurshy

see how the right side of the grid is a semi-closed system?
10:49 am
hurshy

forcing chains there don't get you anywhere
10:49 am
Krys10

useful observation, thanks.
10:49 am
Krys10

will start in upper left
10:50 am
Krys10

or maybe elsewhere on the left side
10:50 am
Krys10

i'm off to print out a few copies to play with on paper
10:50 am
hurshy

okey doke, i'm going to go find my last few words back at babble
10:51 am
Krys10

babble was a quickie for me today
10:51 am
Krys10

i like all the Z's
10:51 am
Krys10

good talking wtih you
10:51 am
hurshy

ditto
10:58 am
hurshy

good grief, ts or cz, not tz, silly babble...
11:08 am
Atalante

why not tz??
11:16 am
Krys10

yeah, that surprised me too
11:18 am
hokie carla

I've seen that before there & thought it was wrong
11:20 am
hokie carla

I will remember that the next time I get the Z in Scrabble.
11:21 am
Atalante

is tz not a recognised spelling in the US?
11:23 am
hokie carla

I've only ever seen tsar or czar.
11:26 am
hokie carla

except in Babble
11:27 am
Atalante

oh! I've alays known tzar or tsar
11:28 am
hokie carla

you wacky brits. :-)
11:52 am
chebuctonian

hi folks
11:53 am
plurple

hi cheb
11:53 am
yul

hello
12:04 pm
chebuctonian

damn, this one's tough
12:05 pm
yul

i thought it was another easy one till i got stuck
12:11 pm
yul

i hope marking will help
12:42 pm
chebuctonian

finally
12:43 pm
eyeman

go
12:51 pm
helenkeller

go
12:59 pm
eyeman

done
1:02 pm
yul

;)
1:14 pm
Stephanie

go
1:27 pm
rycaut

done - some trickiness to this one but doable if you pay really close attention to the implications of certain positions
1:32 pm
yul

yes. it was ludicros :)
1:35 pm
yul

many chains and single pair trick
1:59 pm
yul

some people call them remote pairs
2:45 pm
harpjane

expert? forget it!
2:46 pm
Stephanie

I've been working on it awhile. My kids and neighbors keep bothering me! :) Now I've put one down for his nap and I hope that I can get serious again
2:56 pm
aki2403

oh man, I'm struggling, I did the two in todays paper no problem, this one is taking some thinking, where a number doesn't belong is as important as where is does go, gotta remember that :(
3:01 pm
Stephanie

AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!
3:01 pm

I'll second that!!
3:02 pm
aki2403

and I'll third it.
3:03 pm
franebrown

and fourth
3:03 pm
Stephanie

These things make me feel so stupid sometimes!
3:03 pm
thedave

5
3:03 pm
Limer

I'm getting screwed and I am not even enjoying it.
3:04 pm
franebrown

that's a switch for YOU!
3:04 pm
Limer

Yeah, I hear ya
3:04 pm
aki2403

i know how you feel, I'm not enjoying this one at all
3:04 pm

Ok, clean grid...here goes again.
3:05 pm
thedave

Does this require guessing?
3:05 pm
Limer

I think smoke is coming out my ears
3:05 pm

This is the hardest expert in a loooonnnnggg time.
3:05 pm
Stephanie

3:06 pm
aki2403

I can't seem to get any 3's or 4's at all
3:08 pm
aki2403

3:08 pm
thedave

making a 50/50 guess...I hate to do that but this is no fun
3:09 pm

Who knows...you may solve it that way...
3:09 pm

I mean, by banging head on keyboard!
3:09 pm
aki2403

lol, i'll let you know
3:10 pm
Limer

I am about to utter profanity over here
3:10 pm

about to? The air is blue here!
3:10 pm
Diane

bottom row helped me considerably.
3:11 pm
aki2403

fsk
3:11 pm
aki2403

last 5 numbers didn't fit, had to vlear
3:11 pm
aki2403

*clear
3:12 pm
Limer

Intercorse
3:12 pm
thedave

needs a second 50/50 guess...now my odds are down to 25%
3:13 pm
helenkeller

limer- you're always cracking me up - RANK ME BABY !!!
3:13 pm
helenkeller

no, just kidding - keep being distracted by football & having to start over - 3x aldready!!!
3:13 pm
Limer

Well, this one is pretty rank, baby!
3:14 pm
helenkeller

LOL
3:14 pm

That's good helen. If you'd finished we were going to throw things at you!
3:14 pm
Limer

LIke a hissy fit
3:14 pm
helenkeller

hell - i've been at this on & off for 2 hours now
3:15 pm
thedave

DOH!
3:15 pm
aki2403

there we go, I've written it out now, I'll work on it on paper for a while
3:15 pm

I thought I'd just take a little break from working....ha!
3:16 pm
Stephanie

YESSSSSSSSS!!! I finally did it!!!!!!!
3:16 pm

*sob*
3:17 pm
Stephanie

Oh, artlady, you need to be happy for me. I've worked on this for hours!
3:17 pm
helenkeller

wtg steph !!!!!
3:17 pm

Ok, congrats! I haven't been at it for hours. Yet.
3:18 pm
Limer

Stephanie, you are my new best friend
3:18 pm
Stephanie

3:18 pm
Stephanie

I don't know any strategies.
3:20 pm
franebrown

I guess we'll call you a very luck guesser.
3:20 pm

Arrrgggh!! Mistake somewhere!
3:24 pm
helenkeller

done!
3:24 pm
helenkeller

finally!!!!!!!!!!
3:24 pm

Yay for helen!
3:24 pm
helenkeller

good luck everyone !
3:24 pm
helenkeller

later gators :)
3:25 pm
helenkeller

ps - rank me baby! LOL
3:25 pm
franebrown

we need more than luck and i wish i knew what it was/is.
3:46 pm
Moozey

well the 8s were pretty pain free...now for the rest of the numbers LOL
3:47 pm
skizzybiz

1s are no problem, either
3:47 pm
Moozey

so I've just noticed ;o)
3:47 pm
skizzybiz

the rest... are a bit more troublesome
3:48 pm

Just wait....I'm on my 3rd restart.
3:48 pm
Moozey

hahaha, just what I need an Expert before going to bed
4:12 pm
Moozey

well I've mucked up, all those 4s and 7s have tripped me up somewhere
4:34 pm
aki2403

jeez this is annoying, I've gotten to a point that it can only be guess work by the looks of things
4:35 pm

yep
4:36 pm
aki2403

dang
4:51 pm

Well, patience, persistence and just plain stubbornness paid off. Got it!
4:58 pm
DarleenMB

what the??!!! I had saved my work ... it even SAID so and NOW that I've restarted my browser it's ALL GONE!!! BOOOOOO
6:21 pm
Jack

How do you save
6:29 pm
arleneehm

only on pro membership do you get to save
7:44 pm
thedave

YES! Did it without guessing!
9:32 pm
caffeinatedelf

wow. this one makes my brain hurt.
9:59 pm
btwrt

caff! so long since i've chatted with you on here ...
10:00 pm
caffeinatedelf

lol. i have 12.
11:46 pm
nilole

Hey drwho, are you around? I'm curious as to what your program rated this one..
11:47 pm
drwho

Whoa, this is a new record, 78!
11:48 pm
nilole

Hah.. I thought so! This one is a killer..
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