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Difficulty: Expert Tuesday, August 8, 2006

Not Completed Play This Puzzle

CHAT LOG for Tuesday, August 8, 2006

12:04 am
plurple

that wasn't that hard for Expert
12:11 am
JES

no it was not.
12:33 am
caderoux

Coloring on the threes made it an expert. However, it comes so late that it's easy to spot.
12:38 am
caderoux

EVERYTHING leading up to that is either a hidden or naked single.
2:03 am
rycaut

definitely a much easier expert than usual experts - I used marks but didn't have to make any guesses at all - everything was pretty straightforward (a bit of circular logic that has to be applied but not anywhere near as complex or convoluted as other recent experts have been)
3:10 am
Ninata

done,bye all
3:11 am
Ninata

easier expert one
3:12 am
Ninata

good luck, every one
4:23 am
peternl

hi all
4:32 am
peternl

got mosdt of the way through, then got stuck until I saw a unique rectangle, then it fell out.
5:25 am
jwjjjcjh

5:27 am
jwjjjcjh

5:34 am
MpP

morning
6:24 am
Anne

wow - just one 50:50 guess and it all fell into place
6:37 am
thedave

I honestly think that was the easiest puzzle I've ever seen on this site. Maybe I solve them in a strange way?
6:53 am
chebuctonian

hi all
6:57 am
chebuctonian

this can't possibly be expert level
6:58 am
chebuctonian

either that or I slept really well last night and added some 50 IQ points
7:00 am
yul

hello
7:02 am
chebuctonian

done... hi yul :)
7:02 am
yul

you re a rocket today, chebuctorian
7:04 am
yul

i'm an opposite... a sloth :)
7:49 am
yul

chebuctorian, are you here?
7:59 am
yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?
8:00 am
yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?
8:00 am
yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

8:00 am
yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?


8:00 am
yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?



8:00 am
yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?




8:00 am
yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?





8:00 am
yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?






8:00 am
yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?








8:00 am
yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?







8:01 am
yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?









8:01 am
yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?










8:01 am
yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?











8:01 am
yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?












8:01 am
yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?













8:01 am
yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?














8:01 am
yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?















8:01 am
yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?
















8:01 am
yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?

















8:01 am
yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?


















8:01 am
yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?



















8:01 am
yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?




















8:01 am
yul

is anyone who finished this puzzle is here?



8:02 am
yul

well...
8:03 am
yul

i didn't want expect this to happen
8:03 am
Judy

It was easy for an expert. Very straightforward.
8:05 am
yul

at the end, have you used any particular technicue , judy?
8:05 am
yul

i don't see it at the moment...
8:05 am
Judy

I didn't have to guess or anything...just kept plugging in numbers that were eliminated elsewhere.
8:06 am
yul

hm...
8:06 am
yul

may be i made a mistake somewere...
8:08 am
yul

definetly i made a mistake :) i was worried or a moment
8:09 am
Judy

:]
8:09 am
yul

starting again
8:15 am
yul

thank you, Judy
8:16 am
Judy

Did you do it?
8:17 am
yul

:) not yet, just started again. i usually do puzzle without marking, so i'm a bit slower
8:19 am
Judy

Wwhen I see an expert I automatically go green. Well, I'm off. lol
8:19 am
yul

have a good day
8:20 am
RandLS

wow. pretty easy for an expert
8:21 am
RandLS

only 1 real decision point
8:41 am
yul

i was right in the first place. But i don't see how it was possible to illiminate numbers without using an x wing (if i'm correct) :( i never completly understend 'wings' :(
8:43 am
yul

randls, if you are here, could you tell me what was your decision making point?
8:47 am
Onpaki

i did it! although i had to make one wild guess.
8:48 am
yul

that is most unfortunate... i really could yse some explaning how people illiminate today
8:49 am
yul

hi' Onpaki :)
8:50 am
Onpaki

hi yul!
8:50 am
Onpaki

sorry, i didn't 'illuminate'. i sort of cheated.
8:51 am
yul

do you understand x and y wings?
8:51 am
Onpaki

no, what's thats?
8:58 am
yul

Judy told me earlier that all illimination happend automaticly and i just don't see it! I think i saw an x wing made of 9s in the 8 and 9 columns but i am not sure if it is correct x wing. If you would like an explanation, go to http://www.scanraid.com/AdvanStrategies.htm
8:58 am
hurshy

i'm really confused, i've placed a ton of numbers and it's real easy so far... this scares me...
8:59 am
yul

it is very easy one, hurshy, don't worry :)
8:59 am
hurshy

then why are you on about wings, and it's labelled expert?
9:00 am
yul

i think if you have to use a wing, it's an expert
9:00 am
hurshy

hmph
9:01 am
caffeinatedelf

oh my word - that was ridiculously easy!
9:02 am
yul

was it automatic, elf, hi (?)
9:02 am
caffeinatedelf

automatic? how do you mean?
9:02 am
caffeinatedelf

and hi back :)
9:03 am
caffeinatedelf

i used greens because that's what i'm used to doing, but it was so easy to see the solution
9:03 am
yul

you did not use any special technique
9:04 am
caffeinatedelf

right, no special technique - just process of elimination
9:04 am
Phil

please explain a green
9:04 am
hurshy

shift-click, phil
9:04 am
yul

can i pic your brain, elf, please?
9:04 am
hurshy

yeah, that was way easy
9:05 am
hurshy

turns out i am sure i didn't need even greens, only i put some in out of fear cause of the expert label.
9:05 am
yul

hurshy, explain!!!
9:06 am
yul

please
9:06 am
artlady

same here, hurshy
9:06 am
hurshy

just mostly use basic logic... except one time i did use an extra little thing i thought of (i don't know what the technical term for it is...) i will try to explain...
9:08 am
hurshy

if you have a naked pair that are in the same box but also in the same row/column, and then that same pair shows up parallel to that in another box where they are lined up in the same row/column, well, they can't all four be that pair of numbers or it would violate the rule that sudoku must have a unique solution, you'd be able to switch them without affecting anything else. so one of them must go elsewhere. i used that idea today.
9:08 am
yul

please, i could tell you the point i was lost... it really close to the end...
9:09 am
hurshy

it applies in the bottom left box and the bottom middle box, near the end, yes
9:10 am
hurshy

and by "box" i mean group of 9, not single square
9:10 am
hurshy

does that make any sense, yul?
9:11 am
yul

not really, is it 5/8?
9:11 am
hurshy

yeah. so they're naked in the left, and then they are in that group of 3 squares in the next box over, right?
9:12 am
hurshy

so if r8c4 and r9c4 were 5 and 8, then there would be 2 solutions to this puzzle.
9:12 am
hurshy

which means one of them has to go in r7c4, meaning you can eliminate the 9 from that square.
9:13 am
yul

my problem is I don't see how 5/8 is a naked pair in the middle...
9:13 am
hurshy

it isn't naked in the middle
9:13 am
hurshy

in fact that's kind of the point, if they WERE, there would be 2 solutions, which is never supposed to be true of a valid sudoku
9:14 am
hurshy

they CANNOT turn out to be a naked pair in c4 r8 &9.
9:14 am
hurshy

so, again, one of them has to go somewhere else, and in this case, the only else is r7c4. so the 9 which was a possible there, really isn't.
9:15 am
hurshy

and that only leaves one place for the 9 to go in that box.
9:16 am
hurshy

it would be so much easier to explain if i could point. as a math teacher, i am used to pointing at stuff.
9:17 am
yul

hold on, let me see a bit more
9:20 am
hurshy

how goes it there yul?
9:23 am
yul

or hurhy, i am confused... 1: is left box at your laft? 2: what c stands for?
9:24 am
Phil

I'm still not sure what you meant but I must have been stuck at the right point cos once I'd put the 9 in the only place left the rest fell in very easily. Thanks
9:26 am
hurshy

lol, r stands for row and c stands for column
9:26 am
hurshy

and yes, left box is at my left
9:26 am
hurshy

let me try again
9:27 am
hurshy

just picture this. in the fourth column, imagine that you DID have a naked pair of 5 and 8 in the bottom two squares.
9:28 am
hurshy

because there is also a naked pair in the first column parallel to that, that would mean you could go 5, 8, and 8, 5, or 8, 5 and 5, 8, and either way would work just fine.
9:28 am
yul

i immagine
9:28 am
hurshy

well that's no good, sudoku must have a unique solution, it can't have two equally good ones.
9:28 am
yul

i understand, and
9:29 am
hurshy

so that means that EITHER the 5 OR the 8 must go someplace else, and you don't know which yet, but you do know the place else is in the 7th row
9:29 am
hurshy

so the 9 is a no-go there.
9:30 am
hurshy

you got it? have you now placed the 9 in the bottom middle group?
9:31 am
yul

yes, i sow that cause i have 5/8 in c9r7
9:31 am
hurshy

so are you set then?
9:33 am
yul

no, because i have 3589 in c4r7 and 39 in c6r7...
9:33 am
hurshy

hmm, at that point i didn't have a 3 in c4r7...
9:34 am
hurshy

perhaps there are more things you can place with simpler logic first.
9:35 am
hurshy

but it doesn't really matter...the point is, neither the 3 or the 9 can now go there, because either the 5 or the 8 MUST.
9:35 am
yul

that it is my point... somehow i end up with x wing solution
9:35 am
hurshy

and that leaves only one place to put the 9.
9:35 am
hurshy

maybe this is x wing, i dunno, i am not so up on all the terms.
9:37 am
hurshy

do you see what i mean about how c4r7 has to be either 5 or 8 to eliminate the 2-solution-sudoku issue?
9:37 am
yul

:) in c8 & c9 but i don't now if it is a coinsidence or a correct x wing... thank you, hurshy, very much for you effort :)
9:38 am
yul

definetly
9:38 am
hurshy

yw. catch you later yul. :)
9:38 am
yul

thanks, have a good day
9:41 am
Krys10

hurshy, I haven't investigated too carefully myself but I think what you're describing is a unique rectangle
9:41 am
yul

:)
10:03 am
yul

it wasn't a proper x wing i've used. now i know
10:04 am
ShadeEagle

for the record, I have no idea what on earth either unique rectangle and x-wing mean in this context
10:05 am
Stephanie

Hi!
10:06 am
yul

sudoku solvers have explanations, if you interested. did you solve today's puzzle, shadeeagle? hi stephanie
10:07 am
Stephanie

I just upgraded to Pro. How do I get a cute picture by my name?
10:08 am
yul

don't ask me :)
10:09 am
ShadeEagle

nah - I was going to solve it while I was at work in a few hours. still, I've not familiar with those explanation types, although I'm sure I've seen them before
10:09 am
yul

but i could poin you in to cute pic library direction
10:10 am
yul

ok
10:11 am
Stephanie

Ok
10:16 am
yul

sorry, stephany, 'ok' was for sadeeagle :)
10:29 am
RodeoRogue

I just finished my first expert!!! Doing the happy dance again!!!
10:30 am
Stephanie

Yeah RodeoRogue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10:32 am
sherb

ooh, an expert...
10:34 am
Stephanie

I'm finished!!!!!
10:35 am
Grendel

woo me too
10:42 am
yul

so, no special solving strategies, anybody?
10:44 am
yul

why ,god, oh why I don't see it ???
10:46 am
yul

it is just my luck to look at everything from an unusual ungle...
10:50 am
sherb

tantalising... thought I was going to finish without any little greens... but then...
10:51 am
yul

sherb, do you have 3/6 pair in 6s column?
10:52 am
yul

i meant 3/6 naked pair
10:52 am
yul

o, sorry, it is 3/9..
10:53 am
sherb

no, I have 3/9 pair in that column
10:54 am
yul

2 naked 3/9 in 6s column...
10:54 am
sherb

yes
10:55 am
yul

thanks.
10:55 am
sherb

this is where I usually start guessing...
10:56 am
yul

ha :)
10:56 am
yul

i know what you mean :)
10:57 am
yul

hurshy managed to illiminate 3 in this column, but how I did not have time to ask
10:58 am
sherb

yep, guessing worked... this time... :)
10:59 am
yul

it does, but it is not the point :(
11:15 am
yul

or is it? :)
11:43 am
specificity

...
11:45 am
Limer

Not doing to bad with this expert puzzle today
11:46 am
skizzybiz

yeah, you'll only get stuck toward the end
11:46 am
skizzybiz

then it's the glorified guessing game again
11:46 am
Limer

ok
11:46 am
Limer

look forward to the challenge
11:47 am
skizzybiz

all done!
11:48 am
yul

grrr.. scanraid explanations are so bad!
11:51 am
yul

but hershy was on to something with her's
11:54 am
yul

limer, please, look out for a break through point, i will ask you later. i am determened to understend
11:55 am
Limer

will try
11:55 am
Limer

Ha
11:55 am
Limer

Nailed that puppy!
11:55 am
yul

thanks
11:55 am
Limer

Rank me, baby!
11:56 am
Limer

NO green or red
11:56 am
Limer

Cue theme music
11:56 am
yul

where is it !!!
11:56 am
Limer

get the 3's
11:57 am
yul

how did you choose between 3 and 9 in 6th column?
11:57 am
Limer

and the 9's to where they can only go into one point
11:58 am
yul

limer, that is obvious, but HOW!!!???
11:58 am
yul

did you forsed chain?
11:59 am
Limer

Yes, I looked ahead and saw about 4 moves ahead that the 3 and the 9 would work.
12:01 pm
yul

THANK YOU, i was just so hopping to see that! i could rest in peace now :) i thought i lost any traces of logic
12:02 pm
Limer

Man, I am way behind on puzzles
12:02 pm
yul

i live day by day. what lost is lost ... :)
12:03 pm
Fabregas

word up homies
12:03 pm
Limer

If you join the club, you can do sudokus until they come out your ears.
12:04 pm
yul

thanks, i have a book for that. i love my book
12:04 pm
Limer

Enjoy
12:05 pm
yul

line has to be drawn somewere :D
12:05 pm
Limer

yup
12:06 pm
Limer

You can always join later, if you change your mind
12:09 pm
skrike

phew. that 3 / 9 thing took me forever. finally just took the plunge after not seeing anywhere else to go and got it right.
12:11 pm
yul

yes, i change my mind often. have a nice day everybody
12:11 pm
Limer

I have a whole box of changed minds at home. :-)
12:13 pm
hoaf

Huh. It wasn't 3's and 9
12:13 pm
hoaf

for me, but 5's and 8'
12:13 pm
hoaf

s ... crap. Can't type today.
12:15 pm
specificity

done
12:16 pm
specificity

32 minutes...
12:17 pm
specificity

...
12:21 pm
Fabregas

arghh this is hard
12:51 pm
specificity

done
12:52 pm
Arturion

done twice?
12:52 pm
specificity

no... working on archives, now
12:52 pm
specificity

...
12:52 pm
Arturion

ah... I see. So am I, actually
12:53 pm
specificity

yeah... I had company from out of state for a few weeks and got behind
12:54 pm
Arturion

I just joined a couple weeks ago, so I'm doing all the ones I wasn't here to see
12:55 pm
specificity

ah, so do I. good luck =)
12:55 pm
Arturion

thanks, you too
12:56 pm
specificity

thank you
1:26 pm
hokie carla

now, why, oh why was this one so easy for me, but I can get absolutely nowhere on the 8/2 & 8/6 ones?
1:29 pm
abstract17fr

hi all
1:29 pm
Arturion

hello
1:36 pm
Tsufka

Hi
2:09 pm
Tsufka

hello
4:07 pm
AFShortie

that was too easy
4:58 pm
bech0057

that was way too easy for an expert!
6:57 pm
helenkeller

go
7:17 pm
helenkeller

DONE
7:31 pm
Limer

hey, everyone
7:53 pm
yul

limer,hi, are you here again?
7:53 pm
Limer

yup, here I am again, getting my fill
7:54 pm
yul

fill?
7:54 pm
Limer

Missed 2 days of puzzles, catching up
7:54 pm
Limer

trying to complete August 6th
7:55 pm
yul

i shell live you to it :)
7:55 pm
Limer

Hey, I'm ok, chat away if you want
7:55 pm
hokie carla

me, too. Limer. that and aug. 2.
7:56 pm
Limer

Managed to complete Aug 2, missed the 6th and the 7th
7:58 pm
hokie carla

7th was an easy, IIRC
7:58 pm
yul

thanks was investigating if there is such a thing as "water allergy". It all depends on the defenition of "allergy". In a pure sence there is a reaction but not an allergy. I am sure it is very interesting...:)
8:01 pm
yul

i better go and catch up with a bulk of films I have to watch. good luck with archives
8:25 pm
Limer

thanks
11:58 pm
chrissie2006

hey everyone