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Difficulty: Medium Tuesday, July 25, 2006

Not Completed Play This Puzzle

CHAT LOG for Tuesday, July 25, 2006

12:03 am
Penguin

Good morning
12:04 am
lawfully

good morning...
12:04 am
raggedyandy3478

morning
12:05 am
Penguin

Hi lawfully and raggedy,
How are you both?
12:05 am
lawfully

good
12:05 am
lawfully

how about you?
12:06 am
raggedyandy3478

good, but ready for bed, after class in the morn, 4 mile run, and 3 games of ultimate frisbee
12:06 am
Penguin

So far so good ...
I'm starting to cool down from the heat of the day. I miss winter. 8-)
12:07 am
Penguin

raggedy,
You are allowed to have a calm day or two during the summer.
12:07 am
raggedyandy3478

haha, ya, someday
12:11 am
raggedyandy3478

the prob is, people always have something to do, and im not one to turn down sports or social events
12:12 am
Penguin

And it is far better to be too busy than bored.
12:12 am
lawfully

I agree...
12:12 am
lawfully

(although too obsessed with this prob to agree on anything :)
12:13 am
lawfully

this one's going slow but steady
12:13 am
Penguin

This does appear to be a challenging medium.
12:14 am
balker

appearances can be deceiving
12:14 am
hokie carla

how many times do I have to say it...the mediums are always the worst!
12:15 am
balker

it's pretty easy, if a little unusual
12:16 am
lawfully

sometimes that's true
12:16 am
Penguin

Well, I'm often a bit slow at these. I get there, but it takes a while and this one is a little slower than usual.
12:17 am
lawfully

upper right box's killing me
12:17 am
raggedyandy3478

ill say
12:17 am
lawfully

full of possibilities...
12:22 am
Penguin

I'm starting to make pretty good progress. The middle rows have just fallen into place.
12:25 am
Penguin

And I'm done.
Not as bad as I first thought. The upper right corner was a little stubborn, but really medium.
12:26 am
raggedyandy3478

congrats penguin
12:26 am
lawfully

I'm glad to hear that...
12:26 am
Penguin

Time for me to run out for some late night groceries (when the store's not crowded). Have a good night!
12:26 am
Alkaid11

why is it that i tend to figure out tricky ways of cancelling out possibilities but then i'll miss the most blatant things to fill in?
12:27 am
lawfully

good night penguin
12:27 am
Alkaid11

blah, anyway that wasn't too bad
12:28 am
Alkaid11

peace peeps
12:29 am
shiroro

I really do wish there was some way to not accidentally drag a number's image into the address toolbar. Re-solving puzzles is rad!
12:29 am
raggedyandy3478

haha
12:30 am
shiroro

(the answer's probably "don't drag numbers into the address toolbar." oh well.)
12:32 am
lawfully

done, not that bad as Penguin said
12:47 am
raggedyandy3478

done, just screwed up pretty bad at the beginning and had to start over
12:55 am
shiroro

done (hooray for having to re-fill the puzzle three times by the end. awesome!)
1:25 am
sprite

Morning all
3:21 am
Onpaki

hi sprite
4:06 am
peternl

hi all
4:10 am
peternl

very easy
5:38 am
David Mitchell

Good morning
7:00 am
Tammy

good morning all
7:19 am
Tammy

done
7:46 am
hurshy

hey! this one's got rotational symmetry too! i wonder if a lot of them do and i just didn't notice before.
7:46 am
David Mitchell

Rotational symmetry?
7:46 am
mandi

just about all of them do
7:46 am
hurshy

wow, how dumb am i then
7:46 am
mandi

it's just not very noticeable most of the time
7:47 am
UDbmas

yes, they all seem to have a symmetry based on a diagonal line
7:47 am
hurshy

rotational symmetry is when you can turn something a certain number of degrees (180 in this case) and it's the same. the grey boxes line up.
7:47 am
David Mitchell

Ohh..
7:47 am
hurshy

well i know crossword puzzles have it, i wonder why i never thought about it until the other day
7:48 am
UDbmas

I wonder if you can have a non-symmetrical sudoku?
7:48 am
hurshy

of course you can
7:49 am
UDbmas

I never tried to check it
7:50 am
hurshy

gosh
7:50 am
hurshy

now i'm checking at websudoku
7:51 am
UDbmas

cool... I noticed the symmetry, but just assumed they were all that way... maybe computer generated...
7:51 am
hurshy

they all seem to have rotational symmetry!
7:51 am
hurshy

i wonder if there IS some reason it's necessary
7:51 am
hurshy

it doesn't seem like it should be necessary...
7:52 am
UDbmas

gee... maybe you have stumbled on a useful tool...
7:52 am
hurshy

nah, it isn't anything about where the numbers go
7:52 am
hurshy

cause they are not symmetrical with respect to numbers, only grey boxes
7:52 am
hurshy

they couldn't be symmetrical with respect to numbers, it wouldn't work.
7:53 am
UDbmas

true, it probably isn't much help with the solving
7:54 am
UDbmas

but it is still a cool observation
7:54 am
UDbmas

btw, hurshy... we have a new kitten!
7:54 am
hurshy

ooh nice!!! i love kittens! obviously.
7:55 am
hurshy

i am just covered with shame, though, i can't believe i've done thousands of these and didn't notice for so long. i am going to have to try to research this now and see if there is any explanation of why sudokus are this way
7:56 am
David Mitchell

"In 1986, Nikoli introduced two innovations: the number of givens restricted to no more than 32 and puzzles became "symmetrical" (meaning the givens were distributed in rotationally symmetric cells)." (Wikipedia)
7:56 am
UDbmas

me too. we had 2 older cats, both orange tabby like your pic. One died about 2 years ago and the other this past march. So the time was right, a house without a cat just doesn't seem complete to me.
7:57 am
hurshy

ah, david's done it for me. i wonder why they did that? just for kicks? oh UDbmas! you have my sympathies on the loss of your cats :(
7:58 am
hurshy

oh this is something i've been wondering about, if it isn't indelicate to ask, i have 3 cats, and they are only 6, but i sometimes wonder, when they get old and die, how will the others react to the loss? what did you find with yours?
7:59 am
UDbmas

thanks hursh... Just out of curiosity, I wonder if it would be harder or easier to solve a non-symmetrical one?
8:00 am
UDbmas

Ours pretty much took it in stride as best I can tell. The first to go was my Tiger, 17 yrs old. The other was his Spotledge, at 26 yrs old. They had only been together a few years.
8:01 am
UDbmas

oops...Spotledge was 16...
8:01 am
Vega

I don't think I've ever seen a non-symmetrical Sudoku. (That is, the given #s as non-symmetrical.)
8:02 am
hurshy

hmm, only together a few years, that might make a difference. mine, though not biologically related, have all basically lived with each other all their lives.
8:03 am
hurshy

oh my gosh, euler was involved with sudoku. how fun.
8:03 am
UDbmas

I had a group of 4, tiger was the last, who were together as a group for about 8 years. I think they miss each other for a few days, but nothing serious.
8:04 am
UDbmas

I may have had the exception with Tiger, he had no siblings, he was an only kitten and mom disappeared at 3 weeks. So I had fed him from that point. I think he thought he was the human and the others were merely animals...
8:05 am
hurshy

interesting. i wondered because i had 2 birds before, brothers, and one died, and the other went not long after.
8:06 am
UDbmas

It may have been genetic, or a contagious illness that took them together. It is hard to tell with small animals.
8:07 am
David Mitchell

Our younger cat, who is lying on my back right now (yes, that leads to awkwards posture), lost his sister to a birth defect a few years ago.
8:08 am
David Mitchell

He is still nearly as timid as ever, but he's done pretty well..
8:09 am
UDbmas

He has you all to himself now. In my lifelong experience with cats, while they like the companionship of other cats (and other animals) if they can have exclusivity with their human, they LOVE it.
8:09 am
hurshy

yeah, they don't HAVE to have the symmetry, people just like it i guess. the lowest number of givens anyone has found that still leads to a unique solution is 17, 18 with the symmetry.
8:11 am
UDbmas

wow... this is starting to feel like a physics issue... but it is fun anyway! LOL
8:12 am
hurshy

lol, they had a show in england where people did sudoku on tv, and they carved a giant sudoku into a hill for publicity, and then it turned out the giant sudoku had like 1900 solutions (major gaffe!)
8:13 am
UDbmas

oh my! talk about getting sand in it!
8:14 am
hurshy

golly. what an educational day this is so far.
8:15 am
UDbmas

yep...that's what a "medium" will do to you...
8:15 am
hurshy

hehe
8:16 am
David Mitchell

Actually, UDbmas, he still has an "uncle" or something, an older and larger male cat we've had years longer
8:16 am
UDbmas

Hopefully 'Uncle" is a good role model...
8:17 am
David Mitchell

I've seen interesting personality changes as cats come and go, but that's a topic for another time, as I need to get to work
8:17 am
UDbmas

hagd David!
8:17 am
David Mitchell

Thanks, and the same to y'all
8:18 am
hurshy

bye david mitchell!
8:24 am
UDbmas

okay...made a mistake...starting over! I always have trouble with the medium ones.
9:08 am
yul

hello everybody
9:15 am
chebuctonian

hello!
9:15 am
yul

how are you today, chebuctorian :)
9:30 am
chebuctonian

ah, excellent now that I've finished it :)
9:30 am
chebuctonian

how about you?
9:33 am
yul

i am fine, thanks. I wish stupid tabloid newspeper 'news of the world' is finished. it's evil
9:34 am
bangping

No arguments here, but out of curiosity, what sparks the focus on it?
9:34 am
yul

if you look at bbc.co.uk you will see...
9:35 am
yul

news front page
9:38 am
bangping

Hmm, sorry, not seeing what you're referring to
9:39 am
yul

news.bbc.co.uk trio cleared of red mercury plot article
9:40 am
martom

nor me!
9:43 am
bangping

Heh, sounds like classic entrapment
9:44 am
yul

it is beyond stupid
9:47 am
yul

newspepers like that should hawe a 'stupidity' tax put on them.
9:47 am
bangping

The way to handle it is to not buy the crap they put out
9:47 am
bangping

They put it out there cause it sells
9:48 am
bangping

If no one buys, they'll either change tactics or go out of business
9:50 am
yul

they should pay for the harm thay have done (wishful thinking) :(
10:00 am
yul

finished. good day
10:19 am
Arturion

done... bye all
11:00 am
Limer

Howdy, U-All, eh?
11:01 am
mandi

HI lIMER
11:01 am
mandi

OOPS
11:01 am
scribble

hello :)
11:01 am
mandi

sorry, I didn't realize my caps was on
11:01 am
mandi

lets try that again
11:02 am
mandi

Hi Limer
11:02 am
Limer

Hey Mandi and scribble!
11:02 am
mandi

and hi Scribble
11:02 am
Limer

Say HI to scribbles mom
11:03 am
scribble

is my mom on now?
11:04 am
Limer

Don't think so, You can pass on the greetings, right Scribble?
11:04 am
scribble

i guess so....you are confusing me a little
11:05 am
Limer

Well if it's only a little, guess what I'm going to do next...
11:06 am
scribble

hmmm...
11:08 am
scribble

i suppose it would have something to do with finishing the puzzle...
11:08 am
Limer

A sudoku puzzle!
11:08 am
Limer

You are such an intelligent girl!
11:08 am
scribble

yep that would make sense
11:08 am
scribble

i know i am
11:08 am
Limer

What did the doe say as she came out of the woods?
11:09 am
scribble

ummm..."im out of the woods"...??? :)
11:10 am
Limer

no, it's a joke
11:10 am
Limer

Punch line
11:10 am
scribble

well what did she say then?
11:10 am
Limer

I'll never do that again for a couple of bucks.
11:10 am
Limer

*grin*
11:11 am
mandi

oh Limer
11:11 am
Limer

*Rim shot*
11:11 am
scribble

hahaha :) how funny...
11:11 am
Limer

No tomatoes please
11:12 am
Limer

If you must throw tomatoes, please reomve them from the can
11:12 am
scribble

i have some vegetable soup...
11:14 am
Linda

this seems harder than yesterday's hard!
11:15 am
Limer

just a wee bit more than a tad
11:16 am
MaW

would that be a tad more than a tad then?
12:01 pm
Limer

Ha
12:01 pm
Limer

Nailed that puppy!
12:01 pm
Limer

Rank me, baby!
12:01 pm
Limer

Lots of green this time
12:01 pm
Limer

Cue theme music
12:01 pm
Limer

My apologies to Scribble
12:01 pm
Limer

Later all to all the people.
12:02 pm
Limer

and cu hurshy
12:05 pm
Twin C

woot! this was a hard medium.
1:03 pm
specificity

...
1:31 pm
LauraBee

...
1:56 pm
LauraBee

DONE!!
3:34 pm
richboy109

man finished in under 5!!!
3:34 pm
richboy109

that was mad easy
3:44 pm
The Master

hi
3:44 pm
The Master

hi
3:44 pm
richboy109

hey!
5:26 pm
Stephanie

Hi! Would someone please give me a hint on the second square going across???
5:28 pm
Stephanie

Is there anyone out there??
6:28 pm
Playwoman

I am! Jusr starting.
6:39 pm
Stephanie

Well, when you get the second square, will you give me a hint?
6:48 pm
Playwoman

Sure. Gotta take a break now to take the grandkids into the pool.
7:51 pm
Playwoman

Point of clarification, Stephanie. THe Second square is the middle of the top row of squares, right?
8:14 pm
Stephanie

Never mind! I finally got it!!